Similar Posts


  1. I think we all can see that ‘Notamused’ is not the same as ‘notamused’ …. but honestly who cares ?
    This is Phils blog.

  2. FYI: The ‘Notamused’ posting here is not the person who posts as ‘notamused’ on IBS.

  3. An idea: maybe they don’t list people who don’t have social security numbers. Because such people might just be fictional.

  4. Don , no fear mongering hear… lets stick to the status quo with the established facts and leave the speculations about all the possible scenarios to others

  5. @Notamused – I took $150,000 / .4 to get a rough figure excluding the FEIE and tax credits.

    Assumed a top 40% income tax rate. So you’re right you can earn more, however, there’s nothing stopping the US moving the goal posts.

    They could scrap FEIE easily, and the way the US treats tax treaties, they could unilaterally scrap FTCs as well while still extending them to foreigners.

    Who would complain except US Persons? The foreigner’s wouldn’t care.

  6. ….(you’d need about $380,000 roughly for that income tax liability)….
    that is incorrect since it is supposed to be a “NET” figure after FTC or AMT carry overs taken into consideration. Even if an expats makes $1mio in London p.a. he does not meet this criteria of the net income tax threshold.

  7. I am a covered expat and former long term green card holder and surrendered my green card some time ago. My name has never appeared on these lists. I know at least five other former long term green card holders who surrendered their green cards around the same time that I did. One is definitely also a covered expat. None has ever appeared on these lists either.

    If I had to choose a single word to describe the what this quarterly list should contain, that word would be “ineffable”. (Incidentally, this ‘not later than 30 days after the close of each calendar quarter’ is something the IRS regularly misses yet without consequence, proving that sauce for the taxpayer goose is not sauce for the IRS gander.)

  8. I renounced 2 years ago (non-covered expat) and have never appeared on the list.

    To date, there hasn’t been a single criteria proposed at IBS for which there also hasn’t been a counterexample which renders it invalid. So, yes, stupidity, malice and/or some combination thereof with just a pinch of randomness probably best describe the selection criteria.

  9. For what it’s worth –

    I’m an uncovered expatriate (under the dual citizen exemption) who appeared in the name-and-shame list a long time before my 8854 was even due – in other words, it wasn’t an issue of the IRS disagreeing and deciding that I *was* a covered expatriate. I don’t think the list has anything to do with covered/uncovered status.

    Based on my own experience, relatives’ experience and IBS reports I think the list, at least in the last year and a half or so – Q4/2012 is very suspect – seems to reflect the number of *renunciations*, not *relinquishments*, that State has completed processing in the quarter. This is consistent with the FBI data in NICS, which *now* tracks the Federal Register acceptably well – it didn’t used to.

  10. A 100,000 wouldn’t be out of the question.

    Let’s base this on the current 4,000 renunciation rate.

    If you consider only about 5% of people have assets over $2M, and only 2.5% make more than $250,000 (you’d need about $380,000 roughly for that income tax liability), that means for assets pro-rated it’s 80,000 potentially and for income tax liability it’s potentially 160,000 persons.

    So if this all makes sense the true figure is probably between 80,000 to 160,000 per annum at the current IRS threat level.

    Obviously if the IRS starts taken aggressive action against ex-pats (letters, fines, court) that figure will explode serving as a pseudo Scottish referendum about the US.

    If I was in Edinburgh tomorrow it would be YES.

Comments are closed.

Tax laws change over time, and the information in this post above may be less accurate today than it was at the time of the last revision. This post is not tax advice for your specific situation. Please contact an international tax professional to get personalized advice for your situation.